Taiping prison deputy superintendent Teuku Hasbi Tarmizi, 38, who is among the prison’s top five officials, was testifying as a witness during the public inquiry when he gave non-committal answers to questions from the panel.

Hasbi had repeatedly said he was “not sure” when asked whether he had ordered a light strike force team to be prepared to move the purportedly uncooperative inmates from a hall to another block.

This prompted Suhakam chairman Hishamudin Yunus to say: “Please speak the truth, you’re testifying under oath. You can’t always say ‘I’m not sure’.”

Hasbi acknowledged Hishamudin’s reprimand and answered that he did not order an LSF team to be prepared to transfer the inmates, who had refused to be relocated.

He was reprimanded by Hishamudin again after evading questions about the police investigation into the incident, for which he was summoned twice.

“It’s like you’re finding it difficult to answer the question. Please answer and be honest,” the former Court of Appeal judge said.

“What did you testify about? Did they not tell you why you had to testify, the purpose of the investigation?”

Suhakam commissioner Farah Nini Dusuki pointed out that the police had received reports from Taiping prison, the next of kin of the deceased inmate, as well as the family members of other inmates who were allegedly abused.

When asked repeatedly which case he was summoned to attend, Hasbi remained silent.

Hishamudin then said he would note it down as the witness having no answer, to which Hasbi replied it was because he could not remember.

“I think the police investigating officers told me but I can’t remember which case it was,” he said.

‘Are you afraid of implicating your colleagues?’

After viewing CCTV footage of the incident at the inquiry, the Suhakam panel asked Hasbi if he agreed that violence had been used by prison personnel on the inmates.

He remained silent.

Hishamudin: You were summoned to testify to assist in the inquiry. Your attitude right now is not helping us. Are you trying to hide something?

Hasbi: No.

Hishamudin: Then just answer the questions, they’re very easy. Do you see any violence used by the personnel on the inmates?

Hasbi did not answer the question, saying instead it was “more (due) to emotion”.

Farah reminded him that their question was whether he agreed that violence had been used on the inmates, not the cause of the incident.

She pointed out that one inspector Rizal could be seen in the video stomping on a few inmates several times.

Farah: Is that violence and cruelty or is that normal?

Hasbi: It’s not a norm. So maybe it’s violence.

Farah: So you confirm that violence was used?

Hasbi: Yes, but I did not (witness) the incident. Based on the CCTV footage, then maybe it’s violence.

Asked what he, as a superior officer, did to stop the incident, Hasbi said he shouted at them. However, he said he could not recall what exactly he had shouted.

Hishamudin asked if he was fearful of testifying at the inquiry because he might implicate his colleagues, which Hasbi denied.

Hishamudin: Then why do you need to take so long to think? Why aren’t you answering the questions, as if there’s something you’re afraid of?.

Hasbi: I’m not afraid but I’m just unsure.

Hasbi said the prison personnel involved did not stop assaulting the inmates despite him shouting as the situation had gone out of control.

When Farah asked if this meant that his subordinates would not follow his orders once a situation went “out of control”, he replied: “Maybe.”

Suhakam is investigating claims that more than 60 officers assaulted more than 100 inmates, resulting in one death and many others being injured.

The inquiry continues until July 10, and from July 23 to July 25.